MA Business Success 87: Program Directors

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Graham: Welcome everyone to the Martial Arts Business Success Podcast, about 87. We've actually got myself, Graham, and Phil as always, but we've got a guest instructor here, one of our instructors, one of our top guys who runs a school. This is Andrew. Today we're gonna be talking all about a topic that, in all honesty, is probably, in my opinion, one of the hardest job roles to do in any martial arts business, and that's being a program director or a program manager. Phil, what do we got?

Phil: Well, you know, I've done it, you've done it, Andrew has done it. He's doing it now. He's a manager of one of our largest schools and has program directors under him as well. So, you know, it definitely takes a certain personality to be a good program director and a chameleon, someone who is willing to learn and, you know, he throws failure [SP] points and challenges and all that type of stuff. But Andrew, you know, when you came on board as a student, did you ever think that one, you'd probably be an instructor? Two, you'd be working for us? And three, a program sales guy?

Andrew: Yeah, not in a million years. I think I was lucky to be a student to start with. And then as we started to transition, obviously, through ranks, and assisting, and working my way into an instructor program, I found myself on board full-time which is really great to see. Loving teaching classes, and then I remember the day you approached me about being program director, definitely wasn't something that was on my top of the list to do. But there were some incentives along the way to really help me along, and yeah, I think I blended quite well into the program.

Graham: Look, I know that, Andrew, you're a very personable person. You've got that attitude. For the guys listening to this and watching on the video, we talk a lot about attitude, and that enthusiasm, and that likeability. So I know that myself and Phil haven't done this role. We're kind of like, "How do we grow somebody else to fill these sort of spotty shoes?" Technically, you don't have to be the highest ranking martial artist, but you have to be that person that can interact and, I guess, communicate with others. That's obviously learning that sort of style is one thing, having that attitude is really, really important.

Phil: Yes. That whole saying is higher on attitude and personality, rather than skills, definitely is what how I got involved with it. Definitely, never saw myself as a sales person. Definitely, didn't see myself as a business owner, to be honest. And probably, you are the same, Graham, and probably the same with Andrew, you know like, and that's the job of a business owner is to see beyond the skill level and down to the attitude, and the personality of someone, and see how they can be taught and led to that high level of communication a program director needs. So picking one, don't think of the highest level student you have. Don't think of they must be gifted in sales. Look at the person. Are they personable? Are they friendly? Can they adapt to parents, children, and female and male as well? Can they adapt? You know, you've got to be that chameleon that can talk to every one of those type of personalities.

Graham: Andrew, I've been a couple questions on the go through you now. And I know that you're in this training role of finding new program directors. So, for the guys watching or listening, where do we start? What do we allow a potential program director to do? Do they shadow you? Do they just sit in on the meetings? Do they take a portion of the in trouble? What do we kind of give to them?

Andrew: We have a couple of steps that we go through with our new program directors coming on board. Obviously, study as an instructor does really help them out a little bit as they get that ability to talk to different people and adapt to different situations. We have some smaller processes that they can start on. Things like a greeter where they're more just welcoming new students to the school so they're getting familiar with who are the new guys around the school, and the meeting and greeting, and getting to know them that little bit better. And just be in that phase that someone gets to see and being really friendly. I think it's a sort of follower or shadow, as you said, the program director around so that they're learning about how the operation sort of works in that process. Then they might take small parts of your process as well. So for us, when we show someone around, we take them upstairs, take them through some basic moves that might be saying that we throw to the new program director to go through a couple of skill sets, and then that gives us a chance to talk to the parent as well.

Graham: Yeah, very good. So I guess this is a challenge for a lot of people. It's like one, do they do this in this school? Do they do group interest, do they not? For us, as a high-end martial arts school, the charges are top dollar. We want to make sure that we've got a red carpet service. And having a greeter, as Andrew pointed out, to welcome people through, to have a punchy, well-mannered, likable program director is a really great way to get a good foot forward and build that rapport. Now, understanding that slowly teaching the new guys to learn the ropes, but at what point do we let them cut their teeth, you know? Andrew, do we say it's 6 months, is it 12 months, is it personality driven? You know, at what point do you think, in the training, you've been done with some of the guys that you've tried? At what point do you go, "You know, they can handle this."

Andrew: Like you said, I think it's more of a personality thing more than anything. Some people are fast learners than others a lot. I took a little bit of time myself sometimes. That's just the way things go. Once you can see that they can confidently talk to a parent and face a couple of challenging situations, you kind of sort of let them run with it. And then every now and again do a bit of an assessment. The best way you can do it is to be sort of hidden and in the shadows so they don't know you're watching. That way they don't feel like they're unsure, and they'll probably be a lot more relaxed with the process as well.

Graham: Yeah, of course. Look, I know that we've been chatting both myself and Phil, and I know we have you in communication on this, about giving opportunities to new guys. Now, they may not necessarily be a permanent program director for their long-term sort of journey as a martial artist, but what are we doing in the coming months to give our guys a chance to...we know we've got a couple of guys on the wind that are gonna be good kids program directors or good adult ones. What are we sort of given these fellas a chance to do to help them develop as an instructor getting to this job role?

Andrew? Well, we do run a program director program as well to really help the guys out and give them some, I guess, focus skill sets on how to communicate, how to answer the right questions, or answer the tricky questions when it comes to dealing with different people as well.

Graham: Right. You know, mates, I know that this is always a challenge, having done this for as long as we have and you've been doing this for a long number of years and have certainly added to the success of WAIMIAS, what are the challenges you've faced as a program director? What are the things that the world's on your shoulders? And again, how do you stay motivated...?

Phil: Graham, it is only a 12-minute podcast, the challenges are long.

Graham: Well, I guess, you know, how do you stay motivated as a program director? Because you are behind the scenes. You're not on the floor teaching as much. What keeps you interested?

Andrew: I guess it's really, you know, like you said, that the world is on your shoulders when you're program director. You're dealing with the growth of the school, essentially. And you're the first person that the people meet when they first come into a school as well. So you're that initial impression. I think for myself, I had some good incentives month to month that sort of really helped me otherwise.

Graham: It's all about the dollars.

Andrew: Which sort of put the boot up my backside, so to speak, to really keep me ticking along. But having those wings as well. You know, if you get a good month and you know the schools growing, you feel really accountable for that and I think that's a great feeling to have. And like you said, you can sort of train anyone in martial arts and you can be a great instructor. But to be a program director, it really does take something special. And I think that's a really nice thing to know, that you do have that special gift to talk to anybody.

Graham: Let's flip it on its head a little bit here. What do you do if you're the manager, and Andrew runs the school that's of 900, and he's got some staff under him that are now training as program director? Let's say we have a bad month. What do you do so you don't crush the program director but also still make sure that we don't keep going backwards? Is there anything you do there if you'd know that there's some challenges? What support do you offer?

Andrew: So, looking through your reporting is really important. See where those foul areas are, you know? Was it the initial appointment that they weren't happy with that they didn't come back to their trial class? They do a trial class and they weren't so happy with the instructor or the program itself? Or was it that final meeting without showing the class [SP] and they didn't really enjoy it, the price of it all? But really backing them up as much as you can is really important, and keeping positive with them, like I said, with the incentives is a really good thing to do. So if they are ticking well along, they feel that reward. If they're not doing so great, that's when you've gotta sit down with them, have a look at overall, where's everything at, and what can we do together to really get a good month next month? Where are our inquiries at, what are events, what are the fights [SP] that we can go to generate some more leads?

Graham: Yeah, great and real. I guess so, you know this is a topic that we have got dear and near to a heart because we've all done this and it's an extremely challenging role. I know that it's an ever-changing, a progressing job role. And again, it's one of those ones that I believe is probably the hardest job to do in any martial arts business. So again, team [SP], you know, I really appreciate your insights there, Andrew. I know we've got plenty more fun stuff that we will share in the coming podcasts but also, guys, if you're interested in finding out more about our program director course which Andrew, obviously mentioned, we have that through TIMA. It's a way that you guys can obviously get on, fast track a little bit to some of the stuff that you're gonna need to, obviously, grow or re-educate some of your team that are in that sort of space at the moment.

Phil: I think one of the challenges, I remember going through it myself as well, is you really need to be able to have an answer to all the questions. And whether that's on a phone call to someone who's inquiring about fees, you need to have the right answers, the right time, and a way to navigate the conversation the way you want to. Whether it's in person or whether it is that join up, you really need to be able to have a wealth of knowledge of how to dictate a conversation and how to direct people down a path. Now, it's not tricking, it's not magician stuff, it's not like trying to pull the wool out of someone, you know, either wool under their feet, or whatever. It's about knowing what is the outcome and how you can direct the conversations and meetings in a way that gets you to an answer of yes or no. At the end of the day, we all just want the answer yes or no. Do you value what we've got? The harnessing is for the program director, is know contacting, they don't know whether they're interested or not, it's like, "Do I leave them, do I not? Do I keep pushing them or do I let them go to the email campaign? What do I do with these people here?"

And then there's that many being in the dungeon. You know like, wherever the program director is, they usually they're in their own, in their room, or whatever. It's giving them the opportunity to come out on the floor sometimes as well. So don't just throw a program director behind the scenes and leave them there. You wanna make sure that they do get an opportunity to come out train and be an instructor which is probably, generally, the first reason why they got involved as well.

Graham: Guys, just one more thing. I know that Andrew with his team will also, you know, apply these principles. Look at not just set forget. In other words, when you find someone who is an absolute gem in that role, don't just leave them there because what can happen is they may lose their passion for their martial arts training because, as Phil pointed out, they're not on the floor, they're not training. So always look for that succession plan which is why, you know, we mentioned before is we've always got two or three people in the wind that we think could potentially make a good program director or someone who we can train up for that. Because, you know, the other challenge is when they go on holidays and your number one guy suddenly goes on holidays and then you're clambering, because who else is gonna fill the spot.

So again, team, definitely look at your succession plans and as we've done with Andrew, for example, he was our superstar program director in our beat school. We thought, you know, "We need to have that knowledge and that ability not stuck in one spot but we're going to use that to try and help motivate other people." And that's, you know, that's obviously a great way to do it. You've got that exit strategy always pinned in there as well too.

Phil: Just want to mention, last but not least about, you know, because Graham said, we've put people in program directing even though they didn't really want to and it always ended up in a bit of a bad result. Whereas, you know, lately, we're finding the right people for the right job. We've got Solomon down at [inaudible 00:11:59]. He loves it, and he goes, "I enjoy it, I like going to shopping centers and being that person up front. I'm enjoying that." So you keep on looking out for the right person. You can teach them the skill, but I can't stress enough that find the right person for the right job, working with their strengths will get you a better outcome and better result with students growing as well.

Graham: All right, so team, look, I guess, as always we wanna make sure that any feedback, any further questions you have in regards to this, we'd love to have Andrew answer some of these questions for you, again, delegate, okay? But again, [email protected]. We've got some great stuff there. If you found this of value, and for those who are part of our team online, sort of course, or the members who are paying 99 a month, we've got the TIMA Mastermind sort of group. If you feel that you'd like to maybe talk about a specific topic about program director, we'd be happy to get Andrew on the call with us as well too, and he can obviously give you guys some live information as well.

Phil: All right, guys. Well, thank you very much for joining us today. Have a fantastic week and we'll see on the flip side.

Graham: Take care.