MA Business Success 98: Leadership Development

podcast Aug 04, 2017

watch or listen to the podcast below

 

 

Transcription 

Graham: Good day, mates. It's Graham McDonnell here.

Phil: And Phil Britten. And we have the one only, Mr. Terry Hewitt here. Now Terry has been in our lives for a few years now since we started doing some treks in the East Kimberleys. And, you know, his long list of things that he has accomplished, well, are probably too many for me to mention. But I know factually that you've spent probably about 10 years in the regiment, the SIS.

Terry: Yes.

Phil: And just recent awarded OAM, [inaudible 00:00:35] Order of Australian Medal, which is amazing for your work in charity and in tourism, as well. Is that right?

Terry: Charity. Adventure tourism.

Phil: Adventure tourism, which, you know... And that's probably just how you [inaudible 00:00:43] little things and... Terry, just tell us a little bit more about yourself, what you do, what you specialize in, where you've been, and, you know, what brings you out here.

Terry: Yeah. Well, I initially signed up and did 12 years in the army, and then I spent 10 years with the Special Air Service Regiment. I specialized in high altitude parachuting, and in the counter-terrorism role. I went through to troop sergeant, so I was the troop commander and a troop sergeant of an air operations troop.

After leaving the military... And there was an ethical reason why I wanted to leave the military. There was some number of conflicts that were going on internally for me, for the work, and those sorts of things that we're doing. But then I thought, "Well, what do you do? And what skills do I have?" And I have a lot of negative, highly destructive skills. So I thought I've got this aspect of where I was involved in selection of men for the regiment and then training them to do specific jobs.

So, I had this human resource talent that the Regiment identified, so I thought, "Well, if I go into this outdoor space, which I love, and do rock climbing and ebb sailing, run school programs, and then get into the leadership and corporate side of work," which I've now been doing for 31 years.

Phil: Wow.

Graham: Wow.

Phil: Fantastic. Yeah. Guys, just before we crack on, as always, this is episode number three of a special four-part series where you'll see beautiful backdrops. So if you're listening as an audio podcast, you've gotta watch this guy. You gotta see where we are. What's the name of the gorge here, behind us?

Terry: It's called Regular Gorge.

Phil: Regular Gorge.

Terry: In the Durack Range.

Phil: And let me tell you, it's not just a regular gorge. It's amazing. So please, if you're listening, go watch it at some point. It will be great. Graham.

Graham: Guys, look, up to this point, we've discussed about knowing where you are in the first podcast and the journey to get there. But I guess what we'd like to summarize in this sort of chat is about the relationship you've been sharing with us in the group as we've sort of traversed the land.

So, I know, Terry, you've been [inaudible 00:02:40] a few things with different situation. But in your opinion, both as a person and also for someone running a business, what are the qualities or how do you develop a strong leadership strategy?

Terry: You know, I suppose I can answer that two ways. One is, how do you encourage individuals, when they're coming to this environment, which is completely different to the urban corporate world, and develop them too when you run your own business? Now, in my own business, at one stage I had 17 full-time staff. And how you manage people there, it's the same as I try to manage people out here, is not to control them. Allow them a degree of freedom of expression, and even if that goes to, you know, uncomfortable learning outcomes, you know , they are the best outcomes you can have because then they get real good understanding.

So for me, it's hands off, and it's coaching, and it's more about asking questions of what's going on so that they actually answer their own questions, rather than someone telling them, "Do this like this," because then they just become imitators of what they've been taught, where you're trying to tap within this innovation and this creation aspect of who they are and how they express their leadership.

Graham: Yeah, for sure, Look, I know that we found some great similarities in how you operate in these spaces and how myself and Phil run our business. Because if you're watching this or listening in, to have someone dictate and tell you what you need to do, it'll only get you so far. And you're gonna find that you've got lazy staff that aren't proactive in their thought process. Whereas, you know, the way that Terry operates, he gives you instructions or an outcome that wants to be reached. And then as a group or as an individual, you need to ask around questions how you're gonna there. So I think that's something that we've definitely developed. So if you guys don't already do that or need to find out how, here's something that will definitely help you guys there.

Phil: Terry, something that I find really, really appealing or how you set up this particular trek. I mean, we've got some small to medium business owners here, some entrepreneurs who, maybe they're running a one-man show or maybe they've got multiple levels of team members. But you set up the trek in a way that there was a 1ic, 2ic, and 3ic, even down to fourth level ic.

Terry: Yes.

Phil: Can you tell me a little bit about how that works? I mean, I know. And I just want you to explain it in your words on what is the outcomes on each of those levels, elaborating on sort of what you were just saying before.

Terry: You know, what I'm endeavoring in developing a leader is that the leader himself has a 2ic, 3ic, 4ic, and the leader is completely hands-off. They need to be thinking either 10 minutes ahead of where they want to be with something and they delegate out to people specific tasks. So if you've got a 2ic, they'll quickly grab the next most important job. Then a 3ic, etc.

So it gives the leader this opportunity not to be very hands down on a job, and then not seeing the future and other people standing around doing nothing, wanting to be engaged. So by having a structure where you stay and ask questions, what do we need done and then the 2ic says, "I'll take that." The 3ic says, "I'll take that." And then they'll find other people. And then you can see... You paint the vision, and then away they go. So you're just asking questions and let them take charge.

Graham: [Inaudible 00:06:05].

Phil: Sure, could I just jump in?

Graham: Yeah, please.

Phil: I really also enjoyed how always the 1ic, the person, the leader who's in charge doesn't have to do all the jobs, as you're saying, but they are forward planning and thinking into the future way, way ahead of everyone else. And, you know, I liken that to, you know, the captain that's sailing a ship. He's not swabbing the decks and pulling sails. He's at the top, looking through the scope going, "This is where we're going. There's bad water there. This is where we're going." And everyone else is doing all those jobs.So that sounds really great.

Graham: Look, I was gonna say the same thing, about getting out of the engine room and steering the ship. And we use this analogy a lot through these sort of podcasts. And for the guys that are kind of, you know, again, watching this, listening to this, if you aren't delegating tasks, you're not gonna grow. If you are holding onto everything, that's where you're gonna be in five years time, 10 years time. So you guys gotta understand about empowering people to do [inaudible 00:07:02], but also believe they can do it.

And if, for whatever reason, it goes a little bit pear-shaped, debrief after the fact and go, "Okay. Where were the failure points? And next time you try it, try this, this and this." So it's not about controlling, and I think that's where a lot of small business owners go wrong, is they try and hold on to everything and they continue to stay small, or even worse, they run off really good staff because they don't have a chance to grow themselves there.

Terry: Well, I find, you know, you hear this term about being in the moment. And if a leader isn't in the moment, that's a moment in the future, they're in the moment here.

So when the job gets done, it then comes to a screaming halt, to then develop another plan to get all the energy going again. And so if the leader is free of the immediate operational logistics moment, and put themselves in the moment of 10 minutes ahead or, you know, a day ahead or whatever it is so that they can then keep the vision. Because they're creating the vision. And if their moment is ahead, they'll get a clear picture of the vision that when they consult and brief their teams, their team members then actually start to crystallize the vision as you move into the moment, the time moment that we move forward into that.

The leader keeps ahead of the game. And if the leader is not free from this moment, then they're shackled to it, it's a ball and chain that...of dependency by the team, for the leader to show them how to do something or crystallize how to do something. Because they feel intimidated if they make a decision, they're going to be, you know, penalized for that decision.

Phil: Yeah.

Graham: Yeah, for sure.

Phil: Maybe a couple of days ago we did an incredible ebb sail, an improvised ebb sail, obviously, you know, all safe as houses, I know you've been doing this for many, many years. But it was an improvised ebb sail. And, you know, we have people who are scared of heights and people who were confident, people who were in between. But there were three things that you pointed out before we even started setting up that ebb sail. And I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, it was leadership, logistics and technical.

Terry: Correct, yeah.

Phil: So can you just elaborate on why that was important, why did you say that before we were getting to the top and doing the ebb sail?

Terry: Well, we had a nominated leader, and we had a 2ic and 3ic. So suddenly, they've come into a space where now they're dependent on specialists, and that's myself and Jack, who were part of delivering that outcome. But for me to make sure that the team stayed a team and stayed empowered is that the three key things. As a leader, what is the leadership structure? Because we're gonna have a separation. We're gonna have people at the top, then we're gonna have people at the bottom. And there is all our packs and everything that logistically have to move through that space, and then there's this technical aspect of staying safe in what we're doing.

And so those three key words gets the leader to think about, "Here, now we're gonna start, I don't have these hardcore skills, I have to bring in a consultant, but I still have a team, I still have to get my team to the bottom safely, and we've gotta get all our gear there. And we wanna do it efficiently as well as safely. And so we can set timelines and benchmarker what we're doing." And giving the leader those three key words, it means then the team can start functioning in those key areas to make sure that they've got all those things together.

We've got our leadership, we've got our logistical bits, and everyone is empowered to keep that logistical chain moving smoothly and looking for efficiencies. And then making sure our safety and the technical aspects of all of that coming together for our safety.

Phil: At the end of all that, there was a saying that you say, "Oh, whoop, what time did we anticipate? We're under budget, we're over budget."

Terry: Yeah.

Phil: So everything came down to... Excuse me. This particular thing is that, you know, we're likening it to business. Are we on budget? Are we on time? Are we under budget? Are we making profit? Are we losing out on money or time?

Terry: Exactly.

Phil: That's really powerful.

Graham: Look, guys, because if what we're talking about, you're not doing right now, you need to take action and get on board. And hit us up because we've got plenty of the material that we have, that we've developed and obviously worked with Terry at lengths to be able to share with you guys. So we'll be happy to just sort of provide that. We've got that and some of our online courses anyway. If you don't already do this, you're probably in a great space because you don't already have a pre-existing model. So you can start to implement these types of strategies in there as well so. So, guys, hit us up. Get on board because we'd love to share this with you.

Phil: I'd like to just probably finish with one thing, and then if you have anything, parting advice for us leaders. Something that we do in our business, we have a saying called gay by three, which means everyone should be in their uniform ready to go by 3:00 because at 3:30, classes start. So we expect our guys to be in their uniform at 3:00, then have a power chat. And it was really cool to see that, you know, when we would come in on a camp and we'd select an area, we wouldn't take our packs off. We'd go, "Yep. Does everyone agree this looks like a good spot? Okay. Circle up. Keep your packs on." The leader takes charge, "Okay, these are the things we need to do today, right now, fire, wood, you know, put the billy on, you know, go get fish, all that stuff." It was like that power meeting before we can sort of sit back and get back into, you know, normality. Can you just explain a little bit about that importance of that brief chat, and maybe even if there's other chats? There's that chat, then there's the evening chat, and then there's the handover and all that sort of stuff.

Terry: Yeah. Well, what we were doing here, we have a map because we're navigating through an environment. So it's like having a map chat or getting around the map. And it's an O group, or in the military they term, it's an Orders Group, where everyone gets together. And what you're actually doing is discussing the future. So you're identifying a number of key things. But what we don't wanna do is come in, collapse, throw everything on the ground and then try and re-energize this energy. We come into a central place where we identify all the key elements that we need to put in place, who's gonna own those elements so that we get it done efficiently so that we can then go into these other things.

And it's no different to any operation, any task. When we finish a war, now we've got a task to set up camp. And the quicker and the more efficiently that we set up our camp, then that gives us more quality time to go out there and explore who we are, you know, on the riverbank, catching a barrel of Mundi or doing something. You know, having the fun time, putting the F-word in the workplace of fun.

Phil: I'm glad you said that.

Terry: So we make sure that everyone's on the same page. And what the leader is doing is actually handing over control. They're abdicating any physical responsibility because they can discard a
little job. And they're just thinking about the future and what's going on around here and how we're gonna maximize this space. Because they've delegated, right there, everyone's second ownership of the task.

Graham: I guess what it really boils down to is good communication and good questions being asked by the leaders and sharing [inaudible 00:13:43] .You know, we kind of insisted enough on having a conversation with your team, and obviously, having their input [inaudible 00:13:50] also.

Phil: And Terry, do you have any sort of parting piece of advice? Let's just say hypothetically, we have a business owner, it really doesn't matter what business they're in, a business owner who's struggling to find strong leadership within themselves or how to deliver leadership within their team. Sort of what would be your parting piece of advice or, "You should do this, start here."?

Terry: I suppose the conversation that we've had during this session is about some key aspects of, "Hey, you get your team together." But as a leader, I find a leader's got a number of other layers that they're looking at that you can't use words. You can't...you actually have to demonstrate by your action and how you support people. So the big T word, trust, how do you create a trusting team, where they know it's a safe place if they make a mistake? It's a safe place for them to say, "Look, I forgot this," and then you can implement some strategy early in the [inaudible 00:14:45] to negate any negative outcomes.

So the leader is constantly managing an environment where they're thinking of their people and building this trust. But there's also the ethics of how we wanna do things and how we're doing things there, in this space, as a team. And that's a culture that a team is developing. So you just can't put those things in a piece, down on words and say, "This word's trust. So this is how you demonstrate trust." What it is, it's led from the front. And people know after a while, "This person's always delivering, I can trust this person." And when they hear the leader say, "Oh, gee. Look, I forgot this. What are we gonna do about this? How do we get around that?" And it just creates a space for people to start coming together as a tight-knit team, not through, you know, leadership. But it's how you demonstrate your leadership to your team. It's not through the logistical aspects of how you're pulling things together or all that technical stuff that might be pulling around you, to support you. So there's a lot of soft, subtle things that a leader is working on to actually bring this team to this trust support level, that it's tight. It's very tight.

Graham: Really wise words. Guys, as I said, this is our four-part leadership series, both business survival and actually realistic survival for us. So guys, join me to the next episode and we will summarize everything that we've discovered on our trek. But if you guys are interested, Terry's got a business adventure out. Terry, here's your chance to do the plug to the audience. Where do they find you if they wanna inquire about coming on an adventure or planning something for themselves?

Terry: Well, they just have to Google Adventure Out.

Graham: Adventure Out.

Terry: But something I'm really supportive of and I've been working at it for many years, and part of my OAM is my social work, that I give back to the community. And so Urban Descent is a charity event that I have created. I've turned it into a not-for-profit. The last 14 years, it's raised $8.5 million.

Phil: Wow.

Graham: Wow.

Terry: So, you know, by how you get involved, how you do things in the community... And that's one thing I find with teams, is when you draw people who not only wanna be in a team and look after their family, they care about the environment and they care about their community. And this is really strong glue that brings a team together. And they work efficiently because there's more than an agenda of just making a profit. This is about how I feel good about this group of people who are just all contributing to good families, good communities, you know, and that good social structure, and how do we care and look after things that we leave in the long-term for the next generation.

Phil: Well, guys, like Graham said, this particular trek here, this is mine and Graham's third time. We've enjoyed it so much, and we wanted to bring our friends and people who are in our network along for the ride as well. Because we wanted to take you out of the grindstone, out of the day-to-day, and give you a chance to work on yourself personally, but also professionally. So if you'd like to join us on adventure coming up soon, please reach out [email protected] and we'll be able to give you guys as much enough information as we can.

Also, don't forget to comment, share, like all that type of stuff so we can get feedback and make sure we're on target and on topic for giving you great advice. And last but not least, don't forget to tune in to the next episode. Terry, thank you very much, my friend. It's been a pleasure, as always.

Terry: Thank you.

Graham: Thanks, mate. Thank you.

Terry: Thank you.

Phil: And we'll see you all in the next episode.

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